‘I had two jobs: to run the country and to survive’: an interview with President Trump

From the moment you enter Donald J. Trump’s Oval Office, you are surrounded, not by staff or Secret Service, but by presidents. In his second term, he has chosen to envelop himself in Americana to an unprecedented degree. He faces Franklin D. Roosevelt whenever he sits at his desk. Looking back are Teddy Roosevelt, Lincoln, McKinley, Polk, Jackson, Jefferson, and alone among them as a non-president, Franklin. Ronald Reagan looks over his shoulder for every decision he makes. “We took them out of the vaults. We have incredible vaults of things,” he tells me. “They have 3,900 paintings.”

It’s a roster of the greatest American leaders assembled in an oval around him in their most sterling depictions. They serve as motivation. “I mean, look, George Washington back there and Thomas Jefferson… they’re great. I even have an FDR up there.”

“A lot of people say, why do you have FDR?” Trump mused, considering the ideological gap. “I said, well, he was a serious president, whether you agree with him or not.”

For this President, the rush began from day one. No sitting around — it’s time to move, move, move. Let Elon Musk’s DoGE off the leash. Send Marco Rubio bounding toward a challenging Ukraine deal. And let Vice President J.D. Vance put the fear of God into bureaucrats and Eurocrats alike. But in person, his body language belies the rapidity of his assault — he is relaxed, casual, leaning back in his chair as he shares thoughts on international politicians, but leaning forward and speaking with firmness when he talks about the war in Ukraine and the violent nature of the southern border.

The only way to understand Trump’s plan for his second term, he explains, is to understand what happened when he first won in 2016. “I had never done it before. And all of a sudden I’m standing in the White House and they say, ‘congratulations, you’re president,’ right?” He smiles. “But I didn’t know people in Washington. It was a big factor. So I had to rely on people, and I got many good recommendations, but I got some that I wouldn’t have ever used again if I had known. So I really got to know people, really at a high level and under pressure. So I always felt that if I could get back, I would have some great people.”

Those people are notable for certain traits — particularly their military experience. In his first term, the phrase was “Trump’s generals” — a collection of medal-bestrewn grayhairs who were chosen, in part, to reassure a nation uncomfortable with this highly unorthodox new president. As it turned out, nearly all of them would turn on Trump personally, be terrible at their jobs, or both.

This time, he has gone in a different direction — choosing a younger generation of experienced warfighters, from national security advisor Mike Waltz to defense secretary Pete Hegseth to director of national intelligence Tulsi Gabbard to Vice President J.D. Vance — all of whom served in the War on Terror and made decisions on the battlefield, not in the boardroom.

“Whenever [Pete] called me, it was always to get somebody that was in trouble, because he was too aggressive militarily, out of a jail,” Trump recalls. “I got
numerous soldiers out of jails because they did what they were trained to do. The liberals within the military put them in jails. They teach him to be a soldier. They teach him to kill bad people, and when they kill bad people, they want to put them in jail for thirty years. And Pete was really into that. I always thought of him for that.”

The tenor of this administration, the second time around, is that there is no time for sunshine soldiers. The gadflies and hangers-on are on the sidelines. Trump has surrounded himself with people who understand the tasks for which they’ve signed up.

“I’ve been here for four years under great pressure,” Trump says. “But one of the big things is that if you think about it, when I was first elected, I had two jobs: to run the country and to survive. And it was vicious.”

Trump confronted an unprecedented attempt not just to bar him legally from running again, but to bankrupt and ruin him. This brings to mind another president: Richard Nixon. After the election of 1960, widely considered to be stolen by John F. Kennedy, Nixon walked away — as he did after Watergate, when he was facing impeachment. For a politician who commands a similar coalition, with a similar list of enemies, what lessons does the 45th and 47th President take from the 37th?

“So Richard Nixon was a different kind of a guy, and he was a tough cookie, and he was very smart,” replies Trump. “People don’t realize how smart he was, but he made one bad decision. He didn’t fight. I spoke to his family. They say he regretted that until the day he died. He didn’t fight.”

‘I’ve been here for four years under great pressure’

Trump and Nixon were in contact throughout the 1980s, talking about football and politics. In a note from 1987, the former president addressed the future one with a comment from Pat Nixon, his wife: “As you can imagine, she is an expert on politics and she predicts that whenever you decide to run for office you will be a winner!”

Three decades later, Trump would learn a lot about the nature of political enemies in Washington. “He had a lot. I might have had more,” Trump says of Nixon. “Don’t forget, I went through two impeachments and probably eighty indictments.” He shakes his head as he recites the litany and gazes at the desk. “I went through a lot, but I tried not to… I just put my head down and just did it.”

Among the major challenges for his second term, ending the war in Ukraine is one of the greatest. Less than twenty-four hours after our interview, his now-infamous conference with President Volodymyr Zelensky — held in this same room — will go off the rails. Before the blow-up, Trump spoke with pride about his commitment to Ukraine’s defense in the form of the Javelin anti-tank missiles he sent them in his first term. “When those tanks came in, it was over for Ukraine. And then they got stuck in the mud. They got stuck actually, they couldn’t get out,” the President said. “And if you remember, there’s a statement, ‘Obama gave them sheets and Trump gave them Javelins,’ but I gave them the Javelins and they used those Javelins.”

For a Republican who views himself as a peacemaker, Trump’s attitude toward the war is one of regret that it happened at all, animated by an understanding of the brutality of death and destruction.

“The sad part of that war is it would have never happened. I mean, I tell you, as sure as you’re sitting there: zero chance. I used to talk to [Vladimir] Putin about it. ‘Can’t do it, can’t do it.’ And he and I had a good understanding together. He’s a tough guy. He’s a smart guy. Very smart. Very interesting. But he’s a tough cookie. And there was no chance it could have happened,” Trump said, viewing Joe Biden’s disastrous withdrawal from Afghanistan as a pivotal moment. “It showed that he thought we were a paper tiger. Maybe for the first time ever. He was concerned with us, and then he thought we were a paper tiger. It looked so bad. It was such an embarrassment.

“But with all of that being said, the hardest part for me is to think that all of these kids are dying. This week they’re going to lose 2,000 guys. Now they’re Ukrainian, they’re Russian, Ukrainian and Russian. But you hate to see that. You know, it’s human beings, right? And it’s such a bad war and it’s such a vicious war.” Trump says: “It’s a drone war. It’s a whole new form of warfare is taking place. It’s actually terrible, and sort of amazing. People are studying it. You know, the [North] Koreans went in because they wanted to learn.” He pauses. “They learned the hard way.”

From the President’s perspective, the key to preventing similar future wars is a greater commitment from NATO allies to pay for their own defense, not just rely on America.

“They have to step up, but they also have to get equipment. They have to spend more money,” Trump says, adding: “The Europeans have very old ships. Ships that don’t work, ships that are not functioning at all. They really don’t have too much of a navy situation. Probably the best is the UK, but you know, it’s in need of help.”

‘Putin is a tough guy. He’s a smart guy. Very smart. Very interesting. He’s a tough cookie’

Having spent the day with Prime Minister Keir Starmer — whose voice he complimented at their press conference — Trump seems a bit fed up with discussing British-adjacent topics. He does, however, share his Vice President’s critique of the anti-free-speech policies being deployed by many European nations, including a move to lift encryption limits on Apple phones. “We told them you can’t do this,” Trump says. “That’s something, you know, that you hear about with China.”

He’s also coy when discussing America’s southern neighbor, whose cartels have recently been designated by Trump’s administration as foreign terror organizations. On the decision to detain twenty-nine defendants from Mexico who profited from the trafficking of humans and drugs into the United States, Trump says Attorney General Pam Bondi will look into it. As for potential action: “I’d rather not tell you that… I’d love to tell you.” And on the topic of a long-term solution to these problems: “I would rather not tell you that. You know why. You know what the only solution is.”

He is more frank regarding Canada’s liberal leadership contender Chrystia Freeland, who recently called for a nuclear alliance against the “predatory” United States. “She’s terrible. I’ll tell you what. I know her very well,” Trump says. “She’s absolutely terrible for the country. She’s incompetent in many respects and can only cause ill will for Canada.” He claims Justin Trudeau fired Freeland in part on his advice. “She’s a whack.” But for Canadian conservatives, hurt politically by comments Trump has made, he has his doubts: “Pierre [Poilievre], I just don’t know. I don’t like what he’s saying about me.”

Praise he does appreciate, though, is from the tech billionaires who have come around to his side in the past year — most notably Amazon founder Jeff Bezos, who sparked another kerfuffle at the Washington Post the week we met by commanding that the paper’s opinion page be dedicated to free markets and personal liberty. Trump notes he had dinner with Bezos soon after the memo went out.

Trump intends to build a Mar-a-Lago-style ballroom for the White House, and pave the grass that often turns into a muddy mess for the press outside. “We had the press here yesterday. Do you see the women there? They’re going crazy. The grass was wet. Their heels are going right through the grass, like four inches deep.”

He still doesn’t exactly ooze positivity when it comes to the media. About CNN’s Jake Tapper, who has announced a forthcoming book on Biden’s hidden decline, Trump says: “It’s so hard to believe that these guys could keep their credibility… how a legitimate journalist can try and stick up for that. And I watched him and he looked so stupid, you know.” About CBS’s Margaret Brennan, the Face the Nation host who suggested free speech laws were a gateway to the Holocaust, the President says: “Brennan is like anybody on the street that you could take and say, ‘go in and ask a few questions.’” And about Jeff Zucker, the man who recently tried to buy this magazine: “I made his career. Terrible guy.”

Trump becomes even more candid when discussing his interactions with Biden in the aftermath of last year’s election: “He talked so low… And I asked him, I said, ‘So who do you blame?’ Because he was very angry, you know, he was a very angry guy, actually. And he said, ‘I blame Barack.’ And I never think of him as ‘Barack,’ you know, you always hear ‘Obama.’ You say, you have to think about that for a second. And he said, ‘I also blame Nancy Pelosi.’ I said, ‘What about the Vice President?’ He said: ‘No, I don’t blame her.’”

What about the cocaine reportedly found in the White House in 2023? “Either Joe or Hunter. Could be Joe, too.” He has a slight grin as he speculates. “Those bins are very loaded up with… they’re not clean, and they have hundreds and even thousands of fingerprints. And when they went to look at [the bin], it was absolutely stone-cold, wiped dry.” How different would the outcome have been for Biden if Hunter had just picked up his laptop? “That’s what a drug addict does,” says the President. “They never pick anything up. They’re unreliable people.”

What about the cocaine reportedly found in the White House? ‘Either Joe or Hunter. Could be Joe, too’

I ask about a range of topics, and at no point does the President shy away from giving an opinion. Would he go on California governor Gavin Newsom’s new podcast? “Sure.” On comedian Shane Gillis, his best impersonator: “I like him.” About whether the District of Columbia, wracked with carjackings and homelessness, should come under more federal control? “The DC takeover, right? We’re working on that.” And on the NFL’s debate about the Philadelphia Eagles’ tush push: “I wouldn’t ban it. But what I would ban is this horrible kickoff rule, this new kickoff rule that is so bad.” Trump talks at length about the quality of NFL quarterbacks, still a football fan so many years removed from the USFL.

The President is a fan of The Spectator’s March cover, which features a portrait of First Lady Melania Trump in her fashionable inauguration hat. “I love this cover,” he says. As the conversation comes to a close, he comments on his intent to ring the upper part of the office with gold trim, as “nothing shines like gold.”

Surrounded by billionaires and celebrities, under the watchful eyes of many great presidents around him, Trump no longer feels like an “accidental president,” as so many claimed when he first entered this office. He is much more. And the President is acutely aware that it is not just the eyes of the paintings on him.

“When I was a winner at the beginning, you know, then that was a big win. They didn’t come with me when I was winning. Now they’re at levels… nobody’s ever seen a dais like that, you know, the inauguration. [Mark] Zuckerberg, this one, this one, that one, Microsoft. Everybody,” Trump says. “Which is pretty cool.”

This article will be published in The Spectator’s April 2025 edition.